Jay:  So, I’m sitting here with David from Beeplus. He’s the co-founder of probably the coolest co-working space I’ve ever seen in my life. I have once described as “WeWork on steroids” because that’s exactly what it is. I had the fortunate opportunity to go up recently to Shenzhen to see one of his spaces — one of the many. He has quite a number now. And it is just mind-blowing. He has a bunch of beers on tap. Everything about it, it looked like an Apple store. So I was so intrigued, I had to sit down with him, get him on the podcast. Anyway, thanks for coming on. I think that it would be good to start off with a little bit of background of yourself — where you’re from, where you’re from originally, and how you got into this whole startup mess.

Dave:  Alright. Thanks for having me, Jay. So much name is Dave Tai, co-founder of Beeplus. I was born and raised in Hong Kong, and now I’m starting up in Shenzhen. So far, three years. So when I was in university, I went to Zhuhai, which is a city next to Macau, and then, at the time, when we were at year three and year four, me and a couple of my friends decided to do something different. Because at that time, the tuition for school was quite expensive, so we decided to do something and earn our money back.

So we opened a couple of restaurants there, and luckily, we survived. And right now, we are still running it. We have seven now in Zhuhai. At that time, when we had around three or four restaurants, we had a lot of staff. We have HR people, finance people — and that’s why we needed an office. But in Zhuhai, it’s a city that is very peaceful. It stays the same for the next ten years, and we couldn’t find a very satisfying office. So that’s why we decided to build our own office. This is how we got into the co-working space industry.

Jay:  Very interesting. What exactly were you studying in college?

Dave:  Applied psychology.

Jay:  Okay. So nothing to do with entrepreneurship or anything in business.

Dave:  Not much. Still a bit related to maybe consumer psychology, something like that.

Jay:  Absolutely. That’s actually a very important part of commerce, is psychology. So a pretty interesting backstory. I think it’s pretty ambitious of you guys to come up with this F&B idea while in college. I remember when I was in college I was too busy getting drunk to worry about how to pay for anything. I always thought I would pay for it afterwards, and I ended up getting myself into some credit card debt. Regardless, that’s very commendable that you guys started this.

Now, this has basically spawned into a very large business. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about what happened after college, how this business then helped you leapfrog into what is now known as Beeplus.

Dave:  Okay. Cool. We found Beeplus Technology back in 2015, three years ago. At that time, we were just thinking to build an office for our catering company and maybe we could have a bit of area that we could lease to other companies.

Our first space was built by containers. It was lucky that there was a software park in Zhuhai, that they support a lot of the university students’ entrepreneurship projects. And then they found our project quite creative, and they found our team quite trustworthy. So the boss of the software park said, “Maybe I’ll give you land, and then you can build your own co-working space,” stuff like that. So we used 36 containers and steel structures to build our first co-working space. In that space, we have not only our office but we also have restaurants, gym, event places, meeting rooms, and a rooftop bar.

At that time, we positioned ourselves as the lobby of the software park because not only the space served the people working in there, but it also served the startups and all the companies in that park. When people get off work, they can come to Beeplus, eat there, join our events, meetup, and network with the startups in there. So we started off. We got quite a smooth start in Zhuhai.

At that time, we were thinking of expanding to other cities. So Guangzhou and Shenzhen was our next plan because these were two other big cities, and we wanted our brand to be bigger and bigger. Soon, we always located and expanded our offices in Guangzhou and Shenzhen. Right now, after doing co-working space for a couple of years, we relocated Beeplus. We identify ourselves as the space operator and builder. Not only do we do co-working space, we’re also trying to build different spaces to promote a new lifestyle for people.

So after expanding the spaces that we are doing at the moment, we are working on the China largest bakery in Nanshan, which is in Shenzhen. And we are also working on our hotel and shopping mall projects. So we hope the space that we build can give people a new way of working and a new way of networking and a new way of living.

Jay:  I love the concept, and I love how it literally has… You’ve taken a seemingly simple concept of a co-working space and basically expanded it into a lifestyle solution, really. Going back to your space in Zhuhai, when you said “containers,” you were talking about shipping containers, like large steel boxes that you see out on those big shipping boats. Right?

Dave:  Yes.

Jay:  It reminds me… I remember reading an article about Silicon Valley where the prices had inflated so much for rent and for housing that startup founders and teams had moved into shipping containers in Silicon Valley. That’s the first thing that came to my mind. But also, it was put together very beautifully and artistically. We’ll get the links up on the show notes. But if you go to your website, you can see photos. It’s almost like artwork. I just want to ask you how did you source the containers or even come up with that idea to begin with and then, as far as getting the design in and building out stuff like the bar and stuff like that, how did that all come together?

Dave:  Right. When we decided to do co-working space, we looked at many types of architecture around the world. We also flew to different countries to see different offices — for example, Google, Airbnb in the States — and it really inspired us that the people working in the States can have a very comfortable, relaxing, chilled place to work. Whereas the people in China, we were working in a relatively boring and stiff place. So we were trying to do something different. And we saw the concept of containers that is used for living in the States. And then we were thinking maybe we can use containers to build our own office.

Some people in my team — actually none of our teammates are the co-founders. We actually have ten in total — quite a lot. We are all from the same university, and none of us has the background of architect or interior design. But at that time, at first, we bought a bunch of Legos. We used Legos as containers to build our first model of the space. Later on, some of my teammates, they started learning how to use CAD and SketchUp to better draw the space and the design.

At that time, it was like from zero to one, and we were not confident if that’s possible. But after we designed all the work, we gave it to an architect school and let me do all the calculating work. And then we also sourced the containers from factories. So all the containers were tailor made from a factory. After they manufactured the containers, they shipped to Zhuhai and assembled them together like Legos. So it was very quick, and it looks very cool and relatively is cheaper than traditional architects.

Jay:  Yeah, the first impression would be like “Oh, it must be much cheaper,” but when you just described it, you basically customer designed the container themselves, so it’s actually bespoke containers that you actually use. It’s brilliant. I love it. I love the design, and aesthetically, it’s very pleasing.

Why don’t we use that as a segue into talking a little bit about the business model of co-working spaces. This is something that we’ve talked about before in the past. Obviously, right now, you have the likes of WeWork. I don’t know if they’re actually… They’re not making any money, but somehow their valuation is extremely, extremely rich. It seems like such a difficult model. Even here in Hong Kong, they have two or three WeWork spaces already, and they just seem to keep opening and opening. Not an easy niche that you’ve decided to enter. Obviously, your business model is slightly different. It’s more expansive. But maybe you can talk a little bit about the co-working space business model and how you guys specifically aim to succeed in that business.

Dave:  Right. So first of all, all the spaces are designed and operated by ourselves. Right now, we have a design school only to design spaces, build spaces and also is designing office space for other companies as well. So we are the only two co-working space in China that have the ability to design our own space. One is WeWork. Another one is us. It’s actually really important if you have those design skills because it’s hugely related to your operation. It has a very deep logic in the design. For example, what’s the size of the desk? How many rooms? How many seats can we put in the space to make people not feel too squeezy, too narrow, but at the same time, you have to make money? And how to make people to feel comfortable in terms of building a huge space? So first of all, we have a very strong design team in designing a beautiful and perfect space for the companies that are working there.

Secondly, our business model is very different from traditional co-working space. When you compare co-working space, they’re serving their clients’ wishes or the companies and corporations. But for our business model, we are serving not only the corporations but also we are serving all the people on the street, which is we have a huge lobby. You can see it’s a cafe or Starbucks on the first floor of the co-working space. So we turned a business model… There was to be, in the business model, there is 2B and 2C. So for our lobby, our first floor, we have a huge area for coffee, tea, and over a hundred different kinds of beverages over there.

Jay:  And beer.

Dave:  And beer, of course. This is all free to our members in Beeplus. So our members, they can come down whenever they want to work there, to meet their clients, to read, to have a coffee, to chill out. And this space also serves the people on the street. We have a lot of walk-ins every day. We are selling members. We are selling tickets. So if you want to come into Beeplus lobby, you can buy a ticket to this event. And this ticket will be a day pass which only costs 35 kuai, like $5 (US), and then you can sit in Beeplus lobby for the day and all you can drink.

Jay:  That’s a pretty good deal.

Dave:  Very, very good deal. So we have tons of freelancers, one-person startups, that come in to work in the lobby because it’s much more quiet than a cafe and a much better environment than the house.

So we are also seeing there are lots of interaction between the people from the outside and our members in the lobby. So it engaged the interaction between these two. Right now, for the retail part, which is the lobby, it’s nearly 10% of our revenue in one space. In the future, it will definitely grow more. 2B plus 2C is a very innovative and unique model that we’re trying to take in more. We can see that the synergies between these two will enhance the business that we’re doing at the moment.

Jay:  It makes sense. I would just imagine myself. Let’s say I stumbled into a Beeplus lobby, and said, “Hey, there’s a lot going on here. It’s a good community here. There’s a lot of founders.” If I’m a startup founder, I want to mingle, talk with other co-founders. If I maybe want to meet a couple of investors, hey, let me try a day pass first. Let me buy a day pass, try it out, have a few beers, enjoy the facilities. Let’s say I wanted to then escalate, ascend into another offering. Why don’t you talk us through your different offerings, as in a hotdesk versus a private office. I even saw at your space in Shenzhen, you even had sleeping quarters where you could go and take a nap. I don’t know what the model is there. Maybe you could explain it to us.

Dave:  Actually, all the spaces that we’re designing is innovating. The first space that we designed was containers. At that space, it was a much smaller one. We only had like a hundred seats there. We were not able to put a lot of facilities in there because it’s relatively a small space. So we have some sofas and beanbags for people to sleep after the lunch time because if you’re working in mainland, you know people need to take naps after lunch. But we can see that not many people have a good rest after lunch in that space. So we decided to put napping beds into our new space for people to better take their naps and have a better condition in the afternoons. When we have to experience and operate a different space, we can know better about what’s the use of this. And then it helps us better design and innovate our next spaces. So all the spaces you see now is slightly different.

So far, we have five co-working spaces in Zhuhai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen. So one in Zhuhai, two in Guangzhou, and two in Shenzhen. The one that you went, we have 18 taps of craft beers, free flow. In the new space in Shenzhen, we only have three taps because we located the new space in the city center. In there, we have a new tea bar area which serves teas. Not the traditional Chinese hot tea but the new cold, fancy, and with the cheese that people like, like the Taiwanese tea. So you can see each space we designed slightly different and fit with the people in different areas.

Jay:  I like it. Before we move on to the next segment, last thing on that… Have you ever had to deal with people abusing spaces, you know what I mean? I mean, look, we all know that there are some people that take advantage in this world, unfortunately. And this is something that you have to deal with when you’re running a somewhat public space like that. Has that ever happened? And how do you deal with something like, let’s say someone overstays their welcome. Someone sleeps in the sleeping quarters overnight or whatever. How do you deal with that sort of situation?

Dave:  Luckily, so far we don’t have too much trouble when we run the spaces, because all of our members are high-quality members because we are aiming at the high-end co-working space. Our clients are mainly from Fortune 500 companies, SMEs, fast growing startups, and all of them seem to have a good background. Some people may stay overnight in the napping beds, which is forbidden, but sometimes, if they have to have a lot of projects to get up and they’re really sleepy, then we may let them sleep for maybe a couple of hours.

Jay:  Okay. Well, I guess it comes with the territory. But hopefully they don’t get too out of hand. I guess in an ironic way, it’s kind of a good problem to have because it means that your space is becoming more popular and getting more credence out there.

I want to switch gears a little bit. You mentioned earlier you have five spaces now. You were talking a little bit about your future plans. Talk to us some more about what you’re going to be doing next. You mentioned the bakery concept perhaps and potentially other exciting things that you’re working on for Beeplus.

Dave:  Right now we have two product lines. One is co-working space. Another one is the Beeplus Lifestyle. The concept of it is that we are trying to provide lifestyle solution to people, two-thirds of the time in a day, which is 16 hours. For the first eight hours, they would be in office. For the next eight hours, that would be when they get off work. They need to spend their day in a restaurant, in a hotel, or in other spaces. So right now, we’re trying to solve the two-third time of people in one day. So we have co-working space which provides a new concept of working to people. Actually, coworking is still quite new to China. Many people… We’re still educating the market, letting people know the benefits of working with different, exciting companies together.

Right now we are building artist spaces that we hope people can have a new way of connecting with their friends, chilling out, going to get food. So that’s why we built the new bakery that we were talking about. So the bakery, we were aiming at the China largest scale bakery. And that bakery, we will make new breads every day. We will have 30 to 40 different types of breads from all over the world. And we will also have coffee, tea, dessert to serve people. So it’s like a mega Starbucks where people, they can basically come in and spend a long time in there.

We are trying to become a world-class lifestyle solution company, utilizing our ability in designing and operating.

Jay:  It’s very disruptive, actually. When you were explanation to me… I think it’s very smart how you think about a person’s day — eight hours of work, eight hours after work, and then sleeping.

Dave:  Maybe in the future, the whole day we can solve, but right now, we’re only solving two-thirds.

Jay:  Unless you’re one of those guys that’s sleeping overnight in the sleeping chambers. I would not be surprised, David, if I see all these co-working space start pivoting and expanding their offerings, following your lead, because it makes perfect sense. Traditionally, when you think about a co-working space, you think about, literally, a serviced office, and then WeWork came in, and they added a beer tap and a ping pong table, and that was disruptive because they were like, all of a sudden, you can have fun here, and you can work. Now you’re taking it otherwise step further, and you’re trying to capture that second eight hours, which I think is brilliant.

David, thanks so much for sharing your experience. As we look to wrap up, I always like to ask entrepreneurs for a piece of advice that you could give to the audience. I think that you have a very unique experience, and you started very young, during college. So I think our audience, there’s a lot of them listening that could probably relate to you and probably would want to hear one piece of advice. If there was one piece of advice you could give to them, as far as entrepreneurship or maybe how to start your startup, what would it be?

Dave:  Be kind, be helpful, and always give back to community because if you look after your mate, your mate will look after you. This is how I see community and starting up. You’re not fighting. You’re not walking alone. You’re working with a group of people that have the same value as you. You have to always keep your mind open, knowing what your friends, what other people are doing. And if you have the ability, you try to help others. When they grow, they will also help you. This is how I see it. When we do business in China, we carry a lot of guānxì, which is relationship and network.

Last week, I brought 40 Hong Kong startup founders to Shenzhen. They are all very early-stage startups because the purpose of me bringing them to Shenzhen is that I hope people, especially young people, can see what I see in Shenzhen and know what’s happening out there, not only looking at the small market in Hong Kong. So we went to four of the top-notch, innovative companies in Shenzhen, including Tencent, Royole, Bytedance and, of course, Beeplus. And to talk to executives and experience the product in there. So it was truly a mind-blowing day. The Hong Kong founders, they said they saw something that was out of the world. And I think this is how I can give back to the community. In the future, I really hope more Hong Kong talent can come back to China and embrace the growing opportunities here. So I will help out more Hong Kong startups in the future. That’s the plan.

Jay:  That’s awesome. Good advice. I think it’s something that I learned as well over the many years. Just giving without expecting anything in return is pretty much the way to operate your business. Good things start to happen when you least expect it. If you play the long game and you give and you give without expecting anything in return, people will remember you, and when you need help, they’ll help you.

Dave:  Yes.

Jay:  Thanks so much for your time.

Dave:  Thank you very much.

Jay:  We’ll get all your contacts and links up on the show notes. And we’re looking forward to hearing more good things about Beeplus in the future.

Dave:  Yeah, cheers.

Jay:  Alright. Take care.