Jay:  My guest today is Furquan Kidwai. He’s the founder of Dawaai. Dawaai is an online pharmacy aimed at making healthcare accessible, understandable, and affordable all across South Asia, Southeast Asia, and MENA, which is Middle East and North Africa. To date, Dawaai has 2.8 million unique users, and the app has been downloaded over 50,000 times in the last three months alone. Furquan, welcome to the show.

Furquan:  Thank you very much, Jay.

Jay:  Well, it’s good to have you on. I’ve been doing some unique episodes with entrepreneurs from countries that I’m not very familiar with. Maybe you can begin with a little bit of background of yourself. Where are you from? What were some of your past ventures, and what led you to start this company, Dawaai?

Furquan:  Great pleasure. Glad to talk about Pakistan. A little bit about myself. I grew up in Pakistan, but I left when I was 18 to go university in the UK. I studied there at Cambridge University and Imperial College London. I just happened to have landed a job in the city, became an investment banker, worked for places like Merrill Lynch, Lehman Brothers, and RBS. But I always had the inkling to come back home and do something here.

So that was— there was always sort of desire to do so, but a couple of years, which was the initial plan, to work for turn seven, which turned eight. And that’s when I actually pulled the plug. I said, “If I don’t go now, I’ll never go back.” And that’s when I came back to Pakistan.

Main reason to come back to Pakistan, I think it is more to come and do something here, one. And two, I saw this burgeoning economy driven by 200 million-odd people, under-served in a large capacity and with a unique image problem, which I felt was more of optics than the reality. And I thought this is an opportunity which I’d regret missing out. Hence, my decision to come back four and a half years ago and launched Dawaai.

Jay:  Well, it’s pretty interesting. So, you have a banking background. I have a banking background as well. I spent time— I also worked at Lehman Brothers but in New York, and this was many years ago in the early 2000s. But I think it’s interesting that you were able to— I guess you really didn’t do anything that entrepreneurial before you decided to move back to your home country and start a company. Is that right? [0:03:00]

Furquan:  That’s correct, not really. In my last, just a year or a year and a half before I moved back, I did something very small. The sharing gig economy was just coming up. Gigs like TaskRabbit was coming up in the US, so I started a small, part-time thing in the UK about a home-help service. It was a marketplace.

So, we only did the first bit of it, had like 100,000 maids and housekeepers and dog walkers signed up. But then there was some new company coming up which brought us out for 90,000 pounds. I’ll never forget that. And to be honest. I couldn’t give enough time, so I sold it.

Jay:  Well, that’s a pretty good quick exit there, especially for someone that just started it. So, I’m always fascinated when I hear these stories because I love hearing about people that leave the corporate world and really just take the plunge, a leap of faith, and try to start something entrepreneurial. And there’s a lot of very, very inspiring stories out there. It excites me when I hear people that actually have enough courage to do so.

So, when you decided to come back to Pakistan, you mentioned earlier that there was this burgeoning economy, this growth that is hard to access, but you, being someone from Pakistan, you were able to pinpoint, perhaps, some of the exact pain points.

How did you decide to come up with an online pharmacy? I don’t think that that would be something, unless I had some sort of a medical-type background or someone in the family from that profession, I don’t think that I would pursue that. I would feel a little bit more nervous doing something in online medicine or a pharmacy-type thing as opposed to doing something more very plain-vanilla consumer. You know what I mean? So how did you decide to pursue that?

Furquan:  Yeah, very random, right? Many people ask me this question. I have no medical background or any link to that whatsoever. The last time I studied biology was in class 9, and I didn’t even take the [inaudible 00:05:27]. So, no link whatsoever.

The only thing I wanted to do when I was considering — it took about a year and a half to figure out what I wanted to do in Pakistan. And that’s pretty much I was commuting to Karachi once every month to actually look into the things. I was traveling quite a lot for work. So, I would take a detour from my Asian trips and come to Karachi for the weekend and meet here.

One thing was pretty clear from the very beginning, and I think that was I wanted to be in the consumer space, in the B2C space, driven by this huge population, under-served. That’s what I was looking at.

Plus, I knew that the GDP per capita is quite low in the country, about $1,200. So, it’s not a very rich country in that sense. Purchasing power can be limited, and it can be a limiting factor for many people. So, I wanted to be in an essential space rather than luxury space, something which the people need.

So that is kind of what I was thinking about — be it food, be it clothing. And then it just so happened that my mother got diabetes around the same time. And living in the West, being used to CVS and Boots, you just take this whole thing for granted. So, I was visiting, and the doctor had prescribed her an insulin.

And with a bit of coming from a slightly affluent background, we took it for granted, sending a driver to go and pick the medicines up. And he came back after three hours, and we found out that it took him to go from one pharmacy to another, at least three pharmacies to fulfill a whole simple three-medicine prescription for a simple, early-stage type 2 diabetes patient.

And that got me thinking, wow,  that we’ve been taking things for granted back home in London and when I was in New York as well for a bit, when I was working Merrill Lynch, and what a problem this is. But then, obviously, I took it lightly and moved on.

And back in London. I kept on thinking about it. And the idea started of— this was 2012, so mind you, before the whole e-commerce wave was started here in Pakistan, before the ridesharing, before the Ubers and Careems of this world were coming out. So, the idea was I’ll set up something along the lines of CVS or Boots in the country and set up a chain of pharmacies. That’s where it started.

Jay:  Wow.

Furquan:  Yeah. It was a very plain, vanilla, non-techie thing. It became a tech business after it started. The initial idea was that we go for a big $100-million business to start with, bring Boots or CVS to Pakistan. That never happened.

[00:07:53] The market structure is such that it’s a cap pricing, regulated pricing. There’s a limited margin. So, it never really made economic sense to open up high-quality real estate in the country. And it was more from that angle that we invented the business model to go for volume from day one because it’s actually a low-margin, high-volume business.

Jay:  That’s pretty interesting. And so, you realized that it wouldn’t make sense for you to just bring in one of these large pharmacies. So, you decided to use the leverage of code and the internet and technology to basically to go as low-cost and high-margin as possible, right?

Furquan:  Pretty much, and to add to that, it was actually even more plain vanilla technology. Our thing was we take orders over the phone or over MSN Messenger, I think, or Facebook Messenger, I think one of those. We would take orders that way and our riders would go and deliver. So, it was as simple as that back in 2013. But we have seen the market take off over the last five years.

Jay:  Yes. I’m interested. Maybe you could give a little quick overview. Maybe you could give us a little bit of the backdrop in. Pakistan. Where we are right now, I think that a lot of people in the West, they assume that Pakistan might be something similar to India or maybe an Indonesia or Vietnam, something like that.

What are the differences there? Are you guys pretty similar there? How is the infrastructure there? How is the technology? How is internet, all that stuff?

Furquan:  Yes, internet is very cheap, surprisingly. It’s literally you can get, I think, 20 GB of internet for a month for less than $1. It’s as cheap as that. Mobile phone penetration is about 75%, which is about close to the global average, right? Mobile internet penetration is about 35%, 36%, smartphone penetration about 40%.

And compared to the perception about India and Vietnam and Indonesia, I would just add to that that yes, compared to India, the psyche of the people, the culture is very similar. The local infrastructure is very similar in many ways. And now with the One Belt thing with China, the infrastructure is actually going ahead and improving even further.

But the market, I would say, is about 10 years behind India in terms of the economy and the economics of many things. There’s a great entry point for a lot of these investors who actually think that India has actually has priced them out. And quite similar to Indonesia, where it was  back in 2013-2014, just in the words.

So, I feel Pakistan is just on the inflection point, and it’s a right time for a cheap point to enter. Similar to Vietnam, probably a year or two just ahead or before. Vietnam obviously is benefiting from the momentum of Southeast Asia. Pakistan is kind of left out from that momentum.

But overall, the situation, the macro economy— and as a matter of fact is I wouldn’t called macro economy— economy is taking a battering these days because there’s some structural changes happening, but the market structure and the macro factors are quite similar.

It’s a 220 million people, $235 billion GDP in purchasing power. In purchasing power terms is like $8,500 GDP per capita is one of the richest. In terms of purchasing power, Pakistan is very cheap to get into. Yet there is priority out there. There’s a huge population of people unbanked, but everyone has mobile phone now.

Jay:  And as far as the payment technology and payments culture, is it is it up to speed with digital payments? Is it the credit cards? Is it mostly cash transactions? How does it look there?

Furquan:  It’s increasingly cash. It’s skewed towards cash, about 85%, 90%. But payment providers, especially the issuer banks actually partnering up with a lot of e-commerce players to actually start getting the card usage up. So, a lot of people do take up cards now, just to get that extra discount and whatnot.

But it’s still predominantly a cash market. Payment mechanism, I think, is still six months away. Alipay has already entered the market. They bought a bank from Telenor. So, I think they will be launching Alipay, and once that is launched, I think it’s going to really change the payments landscape.

Interestingly enough, we were the first player in the country, back in 2016, to do first-ever bank partnership for an e-commerce player. Before that, that wasn’t a concept. So, we sold the concept to a bank. We did the partnership, and the market exploded. And from then onwards, everyone — be it the Ubers, the Careems, the Rozee are partnering with banks.

And the philosophy we had at the time was banks are going to go to at war with each other to get their card usage up. The issuing banks we’re talking about. And to get that up the word is going to was there was digitization. People increasingly buying online, entice them to actually incentivize the cardholder to actually buy online and give them some discount. So that’s how we started, and then the market has never looked back.

Jay:  Well, you were pioneers. It sounds like a very exciting time, like you said.

Furquan:   We started very early on. Just a virtue of timing. We’ve been burned many times. We’ve been on our knees, right? So, we have seen the market evolving right?

Jay:  Well, there you go. I mean—

Furquan:  That’s the thing

Jay:  Yes, so you have good experience as one of the first movers in the market. So, let’s talk about your company, Dawaai. Did you have a co-founder, or you came up with the concept yourself? What is your team? What did your team look like initially? It’s obviously grown by leaps and bounds now. What do you guys look like now? How many employees do you have? And then we’ll start talking a little bit about the product itself, the customer experience.

Furquan:  Yes, so I’m pretty much sole founder. I do have a co-founder, but he’s a friend from school. He had some background in the pharma market in Pakistan. So, he was the first guy I called up when I thought about pharma. He introduced me. He had equity in the company. He still has it, but he never joined full-time because he wanted a salary, and at that time we could not afford to give a salary out. I put in some of my own savings into the company to start with. I had three or four employees at $200 a month salary, for a few pharmacists and a few drugs in a licensed warehouse. That’s how we started.

The plan was— I thought the day we started, we tell people, we will be getting thousands of orders a day because, hey, everyone needs medicine. It turned out to be very different from that.

We realized that my personal Facebook account got blocked because apparently, I was breaching a policy of promoting medicines. I had no idea. Coming from a training background, trying to run a Facebook ad the first time, and it got rejected, and I kind of kept pushing the plug button.

And then I remember they had just launched the boost thing at the time. And I was just trying to boost, boost, boost. I tried doing that for five times a day for two days, and then they blocked my account. And that was a disaster. I remember for eight months, we’d be doing 10 orders a week. We had one rider who would be sleeping in the corner. When we get an order, he would jump out of excitement to go and deliver something.

So those were interesting early days. You were sitting in a small, dingy office. Hiring was very tough. Employees wouldn’t come and join because the office was very old. I remember this before the whole digitization and the ridesharing around the country. So, parents were still pushing the young graduates, bright kids in the family, to go and work for the FMCGs, the renowned ones. So, we weren’t really a flavor of the month back then.

But since things changed, as perseverance paid off, now we have 160 employees working across country. We operate in 17 cities across Pakistan. We reduced three to four-hour delivery, same day delivery, essentially.

We have doubled down in the last two months. We have grown 12 X in the last five months. So, this is like a hyper-growth phase right now. Everything is breaking up. Our operations are breaking up. So that’s the stage we are at. But it was a long journey on a windy road, to speak of it lightly.

Jay:  Of course, and those stories that you were just telling me about — doing the Facebook boosting, the ads, and having one delivery guy — those are all great war stories that make it all worth it when you get… At this point of the journey, it must be unbelievable looking back at  those early days.

So why don’t you talk to us a little bit, just basic business model, and what are the various offerings you have, and then maybe you can talk us through the customer experience.

Furquan:  Think of us as PillPack of emerging Asia or Amazon of medicine. So, we are a full-stack pharmacy. We have tried different models. We have tried being a marketplace. We have tried being a hospital supplier. We have tried everything.

But full-stack pharmacy — whereas we own the warehouse, we own the inventory — is a model we finally got onto because that’s where we feel we’re are able to serve the patients the best way. So essentially, we get orders over the app, over the internet or the phone or WhatsApp — you name it. We are an omni-channel [inaudible 00:17:41].

We have a team of pharmacists and doctors who man our call center. They talk to patients. They take the orders. The prescriptions are verified, and orders are processed from one of our warehouses, depending on the location of the delivery. Once the order is processed. It’s packed and shipped and delivered to people. That’s one thing.

In a market which is rife with counterfeit, about 30% of — the range of 30 to 50% of counterfeit in the country — availability of medicines is a major issue. Whenever there’s a shortage, black market spurs up randomly.

So, we are very much above board. We procure directly from manufacturers. We follow the law and the regulation to the letter. We have, in fact, a holier-than-thou approach. And the whole purpose and everything underlying this is to ensure that people have access to quality medicines at affordable pricing. That is essentially what we are working towards.

That’s actually the gap we had seen initially. I suffered myself because my mom is diabetic, and I know the pain. And that is essentially what we are trying to solve, and that has actually taken off recently with us. And the net promoter score with the word of mouth is very strong for us.

Jay:  Right. So, I’m curious. When you said you were getting shut down by the Facebook post due to some sort of regulation…  What are some of the challenges that you have faced as far as regulatory goes? You mentioned there’s a lot of fake medicine out there. How do the regulators ensure that your platform is compliant?

And when you’re making— doing partnerships with the pharmacies and hospitals and labs and this sort of thing, how are all the boxes ticked and how is everyone comfortable that someone is not trying to cut corners, and someone might get in trouble?

Furquan:  Yeah, so the market is super regulated. The only issue, and in fact, the major issue, is the enforcement of regulations is very weak in the market, and that’s why all these macro factors limiting the growth of the market have been at play at a large scale and which is we are trying to solve.

For us, regulations have never been a problem as such because we’ve been super compliant. We have a holier-than-thou approach. Every single of our warehouses is licensed. You name a license, and we have it. We have gone through the whole process and the whole pain of getting it done. We have a license in every single province of the country.

The issue we faced on Facebook was, actually, very specific to digital media, the Facebooks and the Googles of this world, who wouldn’t allow online pharmacies to promote themselves in most countries, bar a few, which are predominantly Western hemisphere. So, we were a pharmacy in Pakistan, which is, obviously, in the list of countries where it is allowed, so they actually ended up banning us. And then we ended up getting white labeled a few years down the line, but that was initially the issue.

As far as the local regulation is concerned, we are above law. We follow every single thing. If anything, we tell the regulators where the gaps in the market are. And, in fact, it’s a weak enforcement of regulation that has led us to this rather complicated operational part of being a full-stack pharmacy.

We were not comfortable partnering with most people around because we aren’t sure about the source of medication. We aren’t sure about the inventory they hold. We aren’t sure about the tax compliance.

So those are the issues that actually let us do this full-stack model, which is relatively very complicated, very difficult to execute, and needs a lot of operational optimization and actual complexity for us. But we have to do it because that is the only way we can actually help our patients, serve them at the level we promised them to serve. And we still fail at times.

Jay:  And maintain the quality control—

Furquan:  Exactly.

Jay:  —of course. That’s very interesting. It’s certainly not the easiest way to build that business, but it’s the safest, I suppose, and in the long run, it should pay off.

So as far as— let’s say I’m a customer, and I have an ailment, and I need some medicine, or I go to a doctor and I get a prescription. You said there’s multiple ways I could… You guys have an app or I could even call it in, or I could send it a WhatsApp photo. Is that right?

Furquan:  That’s correct, yes, you can that you can WhatsApp it to us as well.

Jay:  The largest traffic flow coming from your actual app that you have?

Furquan:  So, app, we launched that only a few months ago, was predominantly a web-based and telephone platform. So, app has really taken off. You can encourage and incentivize people to use our app because we can send them push notification around dosage compliance, dosage reminders and so on and so forth.

There are many benefits to people having the app on the phone. But the largest flow of people historically used to be mobile phone and telephone call center ordering. Now it has shifted towards online ordering, both app and web. We have around 85 to 90% of our orders are on the platform itself, which is great for us.

Phone ordering is a pain, obviously, but the user flow has actually been 80% to 85% organic. We have a huge amount of content as part of the strategy. So content is around medications. So, if you go to a pharmacy in the developed world, the pharmacist should guide you how to take medicine — before meal, after meal, in the morning, in the evening, the whole guidance around medication.

Here, the system is broken. You go to a pharmacy. You’re very, very unlikely to find a qualified pharmacist there, and the shopkeeper is selling you medicines. You’ll bring the medicine. You take it the wrong way. You end up going back to the doctor.

So we digitized all that information onto a platform, so people can read up and see how they should be doing that. For the lack of pharmacists, they can read up on that.

We also did price comparison between generic and brands, which made the market transparent, much to the dismay of a lot of incumbents, a lot of pharma companies. But we thought it’s in the best interest of the people, for them to know because affordability is an issue, so a very price-conscious market. So, we did that.

So that effectively has played along in the macro scheme of things because increasingly, the search engines have become federated and democratized. They look for local content first and then they go for the foreign content. So, for us, that became great because we were the first ones to have that much content around medication and health care in the country and the region.

So, the organic traffic literally went through the roof. And that ended up getting a lot of people on the platform and improved the trust of the people. And then the word of mouth, as I mentioned earlier on.

Jay:  That’s a pretty smart strategy. It’s education to the people, and that’s how — like you said, it builds trust. It’s a longer-term commitment that’s required, but when you build that ecosystem of content and that’s just that library of content out there, then people will keep coming back to you, keep coming back to you, and you’ll be the trusted voice in the space. So, I like that strategy a lot.

Furquan:  Even doctors use our content, funnily enough.

Jay:  Oh really? Nice.

Furquan:   —website actually reading our content and seeing which medicine is cheaper to write in the prescription.

Jay:  Wow, that’s incredible. And then on that side, so just quickly on the business model — because you basically own the full stack, you’re charging a commission or, I guess, a premium on the medicine and the drugs that you are getting.

So obviously, you’re sourcing them at a cheaper price and then you’re just taking a fee on the actual product. Is there a delivery fee if they’re doing delivery? And is there any banking or financing options that you are able to draw revenue off of as well at this point?

Furquan:  Yeah, so the market is, as I said, is regulated and there’s a cap on the price which you can sell it, which is determined by the government. So, can’t we really sell at a price premium to that. You have to sell at the price. You can sell under that.

So, for us, the business model is very simple. We buy from the companies at trade price, or something slightly below that, depending on the volumes and what not. And then we sell it at the maximum-allowed price. Then, obviously, we run various deals and offers. So, it’s a very similar app. And by law, all retail pharmacies have to have a minimum 15% margin.

Now that’s minimum, but that’s, actually, the highest you get because there hasn’t been a price increase. It’s not inflationary-link price increase. The pharma companies and government essentially are at loggerheads for price increase because it hasn’t happened in the last 20 years. So, you can imagine the inflationary pressures. The bottom line is really eroding for company.

So minimum 15% for retailers. Obviously, the companies do not give you a penny more than that. But in case of volumes and a digital angle, we end up getting a bit more in some cases and not all. So yes, our business model is very similar to any retail pharmacy except that we operate a large scale, so that helps us to monetize the scale factor.

Jay:  Right. Well, everything that you’ve told me so far sounds like a very ideal type of investment, and I know that 500 Startups made their first investment into Pakistan, and it was your company, right?

Furquan:  First and one of the largest, actually, I think, in this part of the world. The ticker size is usually much smaller than what they did. So Khailee Ng, who is a great friend now at 500, they took a big plunge, I think. We’re out there to make a good return for them.

Jay:  Well, Khailee has a good reputation of being able to pick unicorns and centaurs. So, I think that if anyone of their team, he’s the guy that you want backing you, so congrats on that.

How is fundraising been going for you? I imagine that, like you said, because it’s a bit hard to access good companies and entrepreneurs, particularly trying to tackle Pakistan. Have you seen a lot of foreign VC’s that are interested now as you’re hitting this sort of hockey-stick-type growth, inflection point?

Furquan:  Yes, I think there is an interest in Pakistan which is growing now. It is much different than it was two years ago. Obviously, having someone like Khailee with us onboard changes the dynamics, so we are, luckily, much further ahead. Unfortunately, for the system, I think it isn’t really there yet. So that’s why I said earlier on, it’s the right time and the right price point for many people to come into the market.

And I think it will likely change in the next 6 to 12 months for the good for entrepreneurs. But, yes, things are changing for us. The kind of volumes and numbers we have, it’s slightly easier to access, but obviously we still are limited by the Pakistan factor. But hopefully we are breaking the ceiling, and we’ll probably be the torchbearer to actually get this out of the way.

Jay:  I hope so. I’m looking forward to tracking you guy’s progress. So, speaking of which, looking forward in the next 12 to 18 months, what are the main goals that you have? What are any milestones that maybe our listeners can keep an eye out for? You said you were in how many cities now?

Furquan:  We’re in 17 cities, and we intend to double up in the next 12 months. The whole purpose is very simple for the next 12 months, to serve as many people as possible. What we are serving is not even scratching surface right now. We want to go just deeper and growth 10x from where we are, because there’s a pent-up demand for quality medication in a timely way at affordable pricing. And no one is doing that, and we have an incredible lead.

Barriers to entry are quite high in this business, as you must have a gist of the operational complexities, which you only learn by being in the trenches. So that gives us an edge as an institution, and I want to just use that and double up for the benefit of patients. So that is essentially what our North Star is, to go and serve as many people as possible, 10x from where we are in terms of the number of people we serve.

Jay:  And you plan on doing that by just literally increasing the number of customers per city, and then adding cities on top of the 17, going forward?

Furquan:  That’s right. Adding cities. We already operate across the country, but for the cities that we don’t have local presence, we do 24 to 48 hours deliveries. So, this is the idea, actually, and when we open up for localized same-day delivery, we see literally a tripling of demand overnight when we do that.

So for us, we want to open up as many cities as possible as quickly to get to those people, because people on chronic medication, they can surely wait up to get a refill by day or so, but someone who’s an acute patient needing antibiotic, they don’t want to wait for 10 hours or 24 hours for us to do it. And we want to be able to reach those patients because those are the worst affected by that.

And, obviously, on the chronic side, availability of insulin, the [inaudible 0:31:01] is not there. Efficacy of drugs is pretty poor. So, we want to solve for this problem. And that is essentially what we’re looking at.

At the same time, be cognizant of our operational limitations, and one key thing for us is to keep improving on the SLAs because with growth, we have seen our infrastructure breaking out. I have to be honest about it, and we are mending it right now.

Jay:  Well, it’s all very exciting, Furquan. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I’d like to leave with two final questions, and the second to final question— the final question is just where can people follow you and find you? So, I’ll ask that after this.

But the second to the final question is I usually like to ask entrepreneurs, especially ones that have sort of come out from corporate and tried their hand at entrepreneurship and have been proven to find some success— give us a piece of advice or maybe an area. If there was a fellow entrepreneur from Pakistan looking to perhaps come in and they realize the same things about the demographics and the macro that you saw, is there an area that you think is in need of disruption? Or is there just one piece of advice that you would give for someone to come and try to start a company successfully in Pakistan?

Furquan:  Yeah. One thing I would say, I think in terms of areas is literally everywhere. It’s the lowest-hanging fruit right now. You think of a sector, you will find issues. There’s a huge pent-up demand from the consumer side in the B2C space, to actually just help them get things. Be it services, be it goods, there’s demand for that.

And in fact, for Careem, which was recently acquired by Uber, Karachi was the largest city for the whole MENA and Pakistan and Africa region. That gives one aspect. It is ripe for disruption.

I do prefer people to be experiential in terms of the pain point they feel. Go for the pain point. Get a gist of what people are struggling with, even for just paying your utility bill is a long queue outside the bank, right? So just solve for those problems. It’s everywhere.

Solve for a problem. Don’t go for the big lofty ideas, which you see in the West more developed market like the B2Bs and the SaS and whatnot. They’re not going to work at this stage. The market is in infancy. There’s a huge consumer play. Once you solve that, I think entrepreneurship 2.0 would be that. At this time, keep it simple, and have perseverance because it’s not going to be a walk in the park. It will be a tough ride. It will a long ride, but it is definitely going to be paying huge dividends compared to anywhere else.

Jay:  That’s good. That’s fantastic advice.

Furquan:  It’s a great market and a great opportunity.

Jay:  Again, like I said, I’m looking forward to checking your progress, and it sounds like you guys are well on your way. And I think that the more of these mature companies that come in with more seasoned entrepreneurs like yourself, the better it will be for the ecosystem. The better it’ll be for entrepreneurship 2.0 in Pakistan. So, I’m looking forward to following the space very closely.

So last question for you then is what’s the best ways to find you, follow you, and learn a little bit more about Dawaai?

Furquan:  I try to be active. I’m not very active, but one place to follow me is Twitter. My handle is @frkidwai, and I also have a Facebook public profile, so you can follow me on there. I try to remain active, not very reactive on LinkedIn. I think LinkedIn is where I’m most active, primarily because I’m always looking to hire good talent out there

Jay:  Right. There you go. Anyone that needs a job and is looking to get a job in the space, connect with Furquan on LinkedIn. Thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it and best of luck in building out your company.

Furquan:  Thank you. Jay. Good talking to you.

Jay:  All right. Take care.