Jay:  I am sitting here with Patrick Ngan who is the CEO and co-founder of QFPay International, and we’re sitting here at the lovely American Club, which is one of the best views in Hong Kong — I’m slightly biased — and I see Patrick here a lot because he’s also a fellow member, and so this is kind of our hangout. But luckily, we’ve been able to steal one of these conference rooms for a short while, so we’re going to have our chat here. Patrick, welcome to the show. For the audience listening in that haven’t met you or heard about you, can you please give us just a little bit of background introduction of yourself?

Patrick:  Thanks, Jay. It’s been a while since the last call-up, but it’s good to be here. A bit of background on myself… I grew up in Hong Kong. I left Hong Kong for England when I was very young. I did all my schooling in the UK, and I came back to Hong Kong with my first job, actually at Lehman Brothers. Back then, there was a Lehman Brothers. How things have changed, huh?

So I’ve been in an investment banker for 16 years or so focusing on equity capital markets on the capital markets side. 16 years of banking after that, I decided to join a corporate in China, chasing the China dream, just like a lot of people did. I went and moved over the Nanjing and spent two years there.

After that, I joined QFPay. QFPay is a mobile payment company from China. We focus on providing, on the merchant side, with our product and our systems, to enable all the mobile wallets that you’ve seen in the market — whether it’s Alipay, WeeChat Pay, or various other wallets from different countries. From China, we expanded into 12 countries right now. Our biggest, largest supporter is Sequoia Capital, and they have invested in Series A, Series B, and now we’re focusing on doing our Series C funding raising right now.

It’s interesting that mobile payment is taking off. In China, it has taken off. But in all of Southeast Asia, in the rest of Asia, they are only just beginning rolling out mobile payment for the local people. And we’re very privileged and honored to be in each of these countries and help out rolling out the mobile payment for the local people.

Jay:  Thanks for the intro. We’re going to dive deep into QFPay because I’m excited to hear about the exciting things. And we’re really sitting at a very exciting time in history right now with what’s going on both with the internet, digital, and with China. We’re literally at the cusp of all these bleeding edge technologies and economies coming together.

Just quickly, on your background, obviously you were a banker for many years, which is where we met. We were colleagues at one point. And at some point, you decided to say, “To hell with banking.” As a former banker myself, I’m always interested to hear from that standpoint. What was the catalyst that pushed you over? Because when we were talking earlier, it’s very difficult… I’m somewhat sympathetic — not for necessarily the right reasons —but that people are stuck within the system of banking. So for someone to actually come out and break out of that and you eventually found yourself as an entrepreneur, what was the catalyst that pushed you there? And why did you decide to do it when you did?

Patrick:  Put it this way. I guess number one, I’ve always set myself a goal — whether it’s a career, whether it’s a personal goal. For me, banking has taught me a lot. It gave me a lot of exposure I never would have had. But I always had this dream of going into China and chasing that China dream of working in China. After years of doing IPOs, doing fundraising, I guess you get very repetitive, in a sense. And so I had this opportunity to join one of the conglomerates in China, and I just took that chance. And I always say one thing is opportunity does not come every day. When it presents itself, you have to think quickly, this about the calculating — the risk that you’re going to take — very quickly because this opportunity will go in a matter of seconds if you don’t grasp that chance. And I say, “What have I got to lose? Let’s go for it.” And I did.

Jay:  It sounds like, as investors, it’s very similar to opportunities you see in the market, only this is your life. So I feel like it’s slightly higher stakes, you know what I mean? If you’re investing and you do poorly, at most you lose a little bit of money, hopefully, if you’re downside protected. But to make a quick life decision like that is pretty impressive. Kudos to you. I definitely wouldn’t be able to do something like that. And, not for nothing, just going into China, people have tried it since the beginning of time, basically. 20 years back, when I first heard about people moving over here, they’ve tried. And people — individuals, companies, multinationals — have gone in and failed and turned around with their tail between their legs and come out. So for you to actually go and do it and tackle that challenge is impressive.

Patrick:  Yeah, don’t get me wrong. It was not all fun and games, as people expect. And I guess I took a step back and said, “I think there is a season for everything in life, and there is a reason for it.” For me, yes, there was a dream of going into China. But I think, like you said, as an investor or as a personal perspective, there has to be a calculated risk. You need to know what that is, and you’ve got to think very quickly. I took that risk, but more importantly, when I went to China, I was after experience. And having two years of that experience, of chasing that experience, what one has to learn is that if you’re only after a good experience, you will always fail because chasing experience, it can be good, it can be bad. Having done it two years, my experience has been very volatile. But what I was glad that I did, I gained a lot of experience. Going inside a Chinese company, sitting among the chairmen, the top senior management, and how they do deals, how they do things are very different from what you see on the outside.

Moving into a second-tier city, I moved to Nanjing. It’s also another challenge. China is not what you think. Beijing and Shanghai, that is simple and not easy. Going to a second-tier city is another level. But all in all, the experience was very valuable. I would not trade that, even though most of the time, it has been very tough moving myself into China, going to a different culture, a different corporate environment… Gone were the days when you were in banking — everything done for you. Going into China, going into second-tier city, going into a Chinese corporate is another ballgame. But I was glad that I did it.

And I would say one thing is always go for the experience. Do not just go for the good or bad because it will always end up what is bad.

Jay:  Speaking of difficult experiences and hardship, you’re not inexperienced in this regard. Here’s a little last tidbit of personal before we get into the actual company that you’re building. But you’re a marathon runner. You’re a modest guy, but I had to bring it up because what you’ve accomplished is quite outstanding. And I believe you’re one of under 100 people in the world to have done a marathon on every continent, each one of the seven continents. So maybe you can talk a little bit about that and some of the challenges and extreme difficult experiences that you had there but that, I’m sure, are well worth it right now.

Patrick:  Number one, I can establish one thing because people cannot see me. I’m probably the biggest marathon runner out there on the continent. I’m by no means one of those skinny guys, the fittest guys. Yes, I have run a marathon on each of the seven continents and also in the North Pole and South Pole. There is a club called Grand Slam Marathon Club. I believe I was the 61st person in the world who has done this. The second person from China or second person from Hong Kong who has achieved this Grand Slam Marathon Club. I think, at the moment, there’s about 80-something people who have done this now.

All in all, I’ve run 26 marathon, full distance. One thing I learned is make sure if you’re going to start something, you finish it. I think running a marathon is not so much for my physical health, which is good, but I think it was just training my mind to say… And it’s really hard. Every single race, it’s not like you run all these marathons and it gets easier. Every race is just as painful as the last. Every time at 25 kilometers, 30 kilometers, you start swearing to yourself. You start screaming, “Why am I doing this? No more, Patrick.” But every time, you somehow finish. You’re crossing that finish line, and it feels really good.

I think the most interesting experience I had was actually in the North Pole. We started off with minus-25 degrees, and when we finished, it was minus-41 degrees. When we ran the North Pole, as you know, the geographic north is 90 degrees, and we ran on 89 degrees. So we were on the most top, northern part of the world. Glad to have been there. Running in 42 degrees, minus-41 was quite extreme, and it’s freezing cold. I’m not going to say… This one thing, people do ask what it feels like. Your body should never be exposed to minus-41 degrees out there unless you have those super big snow jackets, but we cannot because we’re running 42 kilometers. I think that was the toughest marathon I have ever run. I think the physical challenge of… Even on the ground, it was not even icy. It was very sluggish kind of snow. It was very difficult. One thing I’m glad that I said is that I finished, and I think one tick away, and I think that kind of changed my life perspective, how I do things in life now. That was the toughest thing I have ever done in my whole life, and when I crossed that finish line carrying the Hong Kong flag, the China flag, in a way I had that confidence that I had never had before. And it said to me, “Patrick, there is nothing in the world you cannot do.” And every time when I go through a hardship, when I don’t to give up, I think of that moment when I crossed that finish line. I say, “Patrick, you have conquered the most difficult thing in your life. Now finish it.”

Jay:  That’s awesome. That’s very inspiring. Thanks for sharing that. It’s such a great story. I think that when you go through adversity and you make it through the other side, it only makes you stronger and a better person, and that’s where greatness comes from — from going through the fire — or in this case, the ice for you.

Patrick:  I had a second-degree burn on my feet. All my toenails fell out and the second layer of skin. I’m not going to go through this stuff with you, but it was a good feeling finishing it.

Jay:  We’ll have to do a follow-up podcast just strictly on your running career.

Let’s use that as a pivot point. Let’s get into your company. You’re building QFPay. You mentioned briefly at the beginning what it is. Why don’t you give us a general overview of what the company is and talk us through how it started, where you guys are now, and maybe even walk us through the user experience.

Patrick:  There are three founders. I’m one of the three. I have two other partners, Tim and Molly, who are based in China. I focus on everything else out of China — so all the international markets. As I mentioned from the start, from China, we expanded into 12 other countries right now — Asia as well as the Middle East.

In a way, the international market is like a startup on its own. Going through each country, knocking on the door, trying to get connections, talking to the banks, talking to various other partners, it has been a painful process because who is going to listen to you at the beginning. But just like things in life, you just continue. Just keep talking, and hopefully they understand what mobile payment is, and they see the future, how mobile payment will play out.

What we’ve seen over the last couple of years is WeChat, Alipay, everyone is talking about it because there are more Chinese people who go overseas. And in China, these days, when you go to Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, all these other places, you actually don’t need to carry cash anymore. The whole ecosystem of mobile payment is so complete that you don’t need to carry cash anymore because of mobile payment. There’s only one drawback on mobile payment. It’s when your phone runs out of battery. That’s the only time when you cannot make payment. Otherwise, even when you don’t have an internet connection, you can still make payment. Whether you’re taking a taxi, whether you’re buying a cup of coffee or a bowl of noodles, you’re just using QR code, mobile payment.

Jay:  Or even a fruit vendor. I saw a fruit vendor in Shenzhen that had…

Patrick:  Exactly.

Jay:  It’s incredible.

Patrick:  Because of that, Alipay and WeChat has created, in a way, a trend, a payment trend. From that point onward, everything exploded. Plus, equipped with China, there are so many Chinese tourists out there. In fact, these days, Chinese tourists don’t want to be called Chinese tourists. They want to be called “traveler.” It’s more sophisticated.

A funny stat I want to share with you… There’s only 10% of the Chinese population that has a Chinese passport that can go overseas. Can you imagine? They’re already spending $120 billion USD overseas last year just by traveling abroad. So you can just imagine one day, when they go travel, I guess, for them, they will want to do something that they’re familiar with back at home. So WeChat Pay, Alipay becomes the norm of payment. When you go overseas, if the merchants, if the coffee shop in Singapore, if a restaurant in Malaysia, if they want to attract more tourists, they just simply enable WeChat Pay or Alipay so that Chinese, when they go visit Singapore, they can make a payment. And that’s how the whole trend started. But that is representing just Chinese population for the last couple of years. But what we’re seeing right now, every single country — we’re now in 12 countries, so we work with the largest bank if not the second largest bank in each country. Now we’re rolling out mobile payment system for the local people.

So when I go to Thailand, we’re working with the largest bank out there right now. When they roll out mobile payment, it’s not for the Chinese tourists, even though there is a lot of them. When they roll out, they roll out for 17 million local Thai people. In Malaysia, we’re working with the second largest bank, one of the largest banks out there too. We’re rolling out for 30 million local Malaysians.

The reason why I know is because they have now engaged QFPay to do this. So if the banks are going to launch something of this scale, they probably have the blessing of the government, for one.

Jay:  Sure, of course.

Patrick:  Number two, internally, they probably have this assessment that mobile payment is here to stay. And now they have engaged QFPay because of our experience. We’ve been doing this for the last six years. So we will give them not just our tried-and-tested products, ready to go product, but more importantly is our experience that comes with it. We help them to set up the operation, help them with the settlement, going through the entire preparation to launch. And this is what we offer to our partners in every country we go into.

Jay:  Just taking a quick step back, I want to just really clarify for the audience the exact… And maybe we can do this by walking through the user experience. If I was someone that traveled to Thailand, and I wanted to use QFPay for mobile payment, what has to happen? Do I have to download a wallet on my mobile phone and then the vendor had to have a way to receive the payment? Can you walk us through the very simple level of how your business works?

Patrick:  Jay, let’s say you decided to go to Thailand — Bangkok. So you would need to first download a mobile wallet, the consumer wallet. This can be WeChat Pay, Alipay.

Jay:  Oh, it can be one of those.

Patrick:  Of course. This is what you use. When you look at mobile payment, it’s like a credit card. You either use a MasterCard or Visa. So you have obtained a mobile wallet. Let’s just say you use Alipay. You tied up your details — your debit card or bank account — with Alipay. Because every time when you go spending, money has to come out from your bank account. So now that you have your Alipay wallet, next week you’re going to Bangkok. At the merchant’s site, let’s say you’re going to a Thai restaurant in Bangkok, and you want to make payment.

Jay:  And it says “Visa, MasterCard accepted here.”

Patrick:  Exactly. It means there’s no mobile payment. But if you see a WeChat Pay, Alipay logo, that means Alipay is welcome. WeChat Pay users are welcome.

So in their shop, they will most likely have a system provided by QFPay that will enable them to accept the payment, and it’s through an application. We call it the mobile application. It’s an app basically. You can download it on iTunes or Google Play at the merchant end.

At the merchant end, when you make payment, Jay, so after you’ve finished your meal, you go to the counter and you make payment. Let’s say this is 5,000 Baht. So the merchant or cashier behind the counter would pick up our merchant app — whether it’s iPhone or whether it’s an Android phone — with our software. The app is downloaded onto it. Then you just type in 5,000 Baht. So it would turn out they were scanned. You, at your end, on the consumer end, your mobile wallet, it comes with a QR code, and then the cashier will scan your QR code. Instantaneously, less than a second, and then the payment will be made. The transaction will be done at both ends. On the consumer end, you will see a notification saying 5,000 Baht, whatever is equivalent, has been deducted. And at the merchant end of the cashier, they would also see 5,000 Baht has been accepted.

Jay:  And then QFPay then gets a percentage of transaction fee off of—

Patrick:  We charge the merchants a merchant discount rate. We call it the sender code MDR, a percentage, just like a credit card does as well. So every country, their MDR discount rate is different. It depends on the type of merchant. It ranges from 1% to 2% to 3%. Every country is different. It depends on how mature the market is.

Jay:  But the initial question that pops into my mind — which I sure you get all the time on first blush — what is stopping Alibaba and Tencent from going out and basically putting their stamp on all these places that you guys have gone already? You know what I mean?

Patrick:  Of course. By all means, they all do that. But they’re only offering Alipay. You won’t see WeChat Pay because they’re fierce competitors. So they’re not going to aggregate them together. So what we provide to the merchants is that our merchant app can aggregate WeChat Pay, Alipay, and other Asian wallets, and this is what we’re focusing on right now, working with all the major wallets.

Jay:  I got it.

Patrick:  Let’s just say one day… Let’s turn this around. Let’s say, Jay, you own a coffee shop in Bangkok. The most basic thing, you want to take in payment from anybody who walks into your coffee shop, whether you’re a Singaporean, Korean, Japanese, or Hong Kong. If you have my system, and I partner with all the major wallets from each country, that means any Singaporean who walks into your shop will be able make payment using QR code because I’ve already partnered with them.

But if it’s just Alipay, they will give you the system that will only show Alipay only. You see where I’m coming from now. Right? So at the end of the day, if you are the coffee shop, would you like to have mine — which I will also have Alipay as well, but I will also have 10 other wallets from each country — versus somebody who is just going to give you—

Jay:  Or 10 different terminals that you have to set up.

Patrick:  Exactly. And this is what we do.

Jay:  I see. Very clever. I’m finally understanding the value proposition of QFPay. Not that I doubted it.

Patrick:  We work very closely with Alipay, WeChat Pay. That model is also… We partner with them, and we provide our merchants with Alipay, WeChat Pay as well. But we go one step forward. We bring other local wallets, reputable ones that represent a country and we bring them to the other.

For example, in Thailand, we work with Rabbit-LINE Pay. We work with AirPay. They’re a very large wallet in Thailand. So it means one day if a local Thai person using Rabbit-LINE Pay or AirPay wallet, when they come to Hong Kong — because I focus on all the merchant networks, and I enable them — a local Thai person comes to Hong Kong and starts making payment. A Thai person going to Japan, Tokyo, can also do the same. Japanese people using a partner wallet, they can come to Hong Kong. They can go to Dubai.

Have you heard of Burj Khalifa in Dubai?

Jay:  Yes.

Patrick:  The most visited tourism place. Right? At Burj Khalifa, anyone who buys a ticket at the counter, they’re using my system as well.

Jay:  Ah, nice.

Patrick:  They’re using QFPay system. So anyone who goes in there, so long as they’re partnered with us, you can just use that ticket system and buy a ticket, and you’ll be using QFPay.

Jay:  Very cool. Let’s go down this rabbit hole a little bit further. Cryptocurrencies — obviously another question you probably get asked all the time. Right now we’re very early in this whole blockchain cryptocurrency thing, but some of the projects they’re working on is developing a payment solution where you can basically pay with cryptocurrency and have it quickly settled and this sort of thing. What do you guys have planned in the cryptocurrency realm? Is that something you guys are considering?

Patrick:  Absolutely. In the end, it’s about payment, payment acceptance. We will be forming a strategic partnership with a crypto payment company. And together, we will start accepting the popular digital tokens — Bitcoin or Ether.

So how it works is… Using the same example at, Jay, your coffee shop in Bangkok. Let’s say an American doesn’t have an Alipay account. They don’t have the local wallets, but they have Bitcoin. If they want to buy that cup of coffee, let’s say they walk up to you, Jay. “Would you take Bitcoin for a cup of coffee?” You say, “Absolutely, yes,” because the QFPay system will allow them to accept crypto payment, and this is what we’re going to be our next phase going into it.

Of course, not every country is so crypto friendly right now, but we will be looking to launch in the 4th quarter in certain countries like Japan, Hong Kong, and Thailand and certain merchants first.

I guess, from your perspective, you, as a coffee shop owner, you don’t want to take Bitcoin as a settlement currency. You want fiat currency. So we will also do the conversion from crypto digital token into fiat currency and settle with you in local currency.

Jay:  Wow. That’s fantastic. Speaking of which, in addition to what you just mentioned, what are some of your other forward-looking plans for the rest of the year. Obviously, we’re coming up to the tail end here and into 2019. What are some milestones? You obviously had a couple of rounds of huge financing venture, financing from the top VCs. And I guess you’re working on your Series C at some point. What other strategic milestones do you see in the near future?

Patrick:  Just on the financing side, we are currently during our Series C right now. Our existing shareholders are very supportive, and they are also coming into this round. The goal is to continue with the international expansion plan as well as to support our China business. So that’s on the financing part.

On the strategic part, we’ve now launched into 12 countries, and I think, as a startup, I think it’s good for people to know if you want to grow the country, you have to have your own team, build your own team on the ground, hiring local people. This is why we’re raising this round right now. 12 countries, I need to build my own team. I have to get the local team and start serving our clients in each country. I think this is very important.

Our goal at the moment, we pride ourselves as the most experienced in Asia, and we’re going to be the largest in Asia, hopefully when I come back again in 2019, I would be proud to tell in 2019, we are the largest in Asia. And I think, what we mentioned earlier, is to grow every country — whether it’s domestic consumption we’re focusing on. But we’re doing overseas payment.

Another part of it is also the crypto payment part as well. So it’s going to be very exciting going forward because now every country will be launching their own mobile payment, and we are at the beginning of it, and we’re helping them to do it. So going forward, it’s going to get busier and busier, and you’re going to see a lot more offering going forward using mobile payment.

Jay:  Right now it sounds like most of your presence is within the region of Asia. Do you have plans to expand further to, perhaps, Europe or the US, maybe capture some of that 90% of tourists — sorry, Chinese travelers — that haven’t come out yet, gotten their passports.

Patrick:  There are a couple of things for myself, a couple of principles I set for myself. If I cannot commit my time to a country, I would not want to venture into it because I think if you’re going to go to a new country, you need to make sure you have spent enough time there, otherwise you won’t be seeing what’s going on. You don’t even know the insights.

At this stage right now, we are all over Asia. We’re going to go into Australia, is our next country as well. We were the first to launch into Dubai in the Middle East, so we’re very proud of this. We want to be the largest in Asia. Until we become the largest, then we’re going to stay focused on it, and then we’ll think about something else. Europe, US — the way I look at it, Europe is not ready yet for QR code mobile payment. I think they’re still focusing on the NFC, the contactless credit card. But it’s all about chicken and egg situation. If everybody in Asia is doing QR code mobile payment, I think Europe will wake up to it. They will eventually, in three years’ time, because there will be a lot of Europeans who come to Singapore, to Hong Kong. “Hey, would you still take credit card?” Interesting, huh?

I think in three years’ time, when they wake up to mobile payment, I have the entire 12 countries now. You’re going to talk to QFPay, and I will enable you guys to whatever wallet you come out. I’ll have to enable you, and then you can start marking payment.

Jay:  Yeah. The macro backdrop is correct. Think about what China has achieved, basically is has leapfrogged the US and the West and gone straight from a country that was very closed off 15 years ago to now people don’t even bother with desktop computers anymore. All they carry around is this mobile phone. So they’ve leap frogged the US and far surpassed them in mobile payments. So your prediction is absolutely true. Credit cards are going to be like a floppy disk soon. It’s going to be like a relic.

Patrick:  I share this experience every time before a presentation. I ask one thing. What’s the first thing you do when you wake up in the morning? You don’t kiss your husband. You don’t kiss your wife. The first thing you do, you look at your mobile phone.

Jay:  That’s right.

Patrick:  And I also share that I have this very smart client. He said, “No, I kiss my wife every morning.”

I said, “I don’t believe you.”

And he showed me the picture. He had a screensaver of his wife on his phone, because that’s the first thing he does. He checks his phone. These days, I personally cannot remember the last time I picked up a newspaper, a hard copy, because everything I read, all the news, is on the app — CNN app, BBC app. That is going to be… The penetration rate of smart phone going forward, as it increases, that is just going to give us bullets for mobile payment because everything you do will be from your mobile phone — whether it’s payment, whether you’re chatting to your friends, whether you read the news, everything will be from your mobile phone. And I think we’re going to stay here.

Jay:  Absolutely. I’ve even gone on short business trips with just my phone, not even a laptop, and gotten away with it.

On the personal side, any marathons coming up that you are training for or have on your sites?

Patrick:  The marathons I kind of stopped after achieving this Grand Slam Marathon Club, so I’m kind of finding a new challenge in life. So that was Ironman.

Jay:  Oh, okay. So since a marathon isn’t hard enough now… Level up.

Patrick:  Just to add a bit more. So a bit of swimming part and the cycling part. It is very addictive, and it’s very challenging. I can honestly say two or three years ago, I could hardly swim. Now if you want to do something, you just get on with it. If you want to do an Ironman, you better learn how to swim. And I think it’s very rewarding. It’s just very challenging, and it’s very tough. But I really enjoy it. I think we are all addicted to pain at some point. But I still run marathons just to keep up with the training — training between races. I have a number of marathons coming up — interesting one. One in Sydney. We’ll see how it goes.

Jay:  Yeah, absolutely. Final two questions for you, Patrick. And thanks again for your time and sharing your story. It’s always good to do these in person because I rarely get to do them in person. Most of them are done on the internet, so it’s a lot of fun.

The second-to-last question, which I like to ask most of my guests, is a piece of advice. Having come up through your background — the banking system, done a couple of different higher-level roles, and now being an entrepreneur, building a startup — if you had a piece of advice for someone that may be a younger version of yourself coming through the system, that might help them hack or shortcut their success or actually just figuring out what they want to do maybe, what kind of advice would you give?

Patrick:  I think of that as two stages. For those who really want to do a startup, make sure you find something that you enjoy. You need to have passion. If you’re passionate in what you do — especially doing into a startup — it’s not going to work. That’s number one.

Number two — for those who are in a startup right now, there’s only one piece of advice that I  would say. Do not give up. My motto in life is that, you start something, you’ve got to do it standing in front of a starting line. If you do, make sure you finish it. There’s no halfway. You start something, you finish it. I don’t care what it takes — whether it’s 42 kilometers or whether it’s minus-41 degrees. This is to a lot of entrepreneurs… It’s going to be so painful along the journey, and it’s very easy to give up. It’s very easy to give up. But you’ve just got to do it or you don’t. If you’re going to do it, give it your best shot, and just don’t give up. It’s too easy. But that’s one of the reasons why we’re in startup, isn’t it? Starting something is easy, but seeing it to the end is going to be very rewarding. I would say just don’t give up and persevere and just get on. Get your heads down, and just push through the pain barrier.

Jay:  Awesome advice. Thanks for that. The last question is basically just where can people find you, follow you, maybe learn a little bit more about QFPay or follow you personally, connect with you personally?

Patrick:  Most likely you can see me at the Ironman races or the marathon races. So do say hi. I travel a lot because of 12 countries. Airport lounges, you may be able to find me.

Jay:  I have run into you before.

Patrick:  Correct. I think I’m on — what’s the most social media these days? What does people use?

Jay:  LinkedIn is the professional one. I don’t know if you’re on that.

Patrick:  Yeah, I do LinkedIn. I rarely get on it. The last time I saw it… The first time I saw it, the Jay Kim Show, it was actually on LinkedIn. That was a very inspiring story that we’ve shared before. But other than that, it would be good to say hi to people at the races. I think it’s a good way to meet people.

Jay:  Awesome. We’ll get all your bio and stuff linked up in the show notes. Thanks again, Patrick. It’s such a pleasure to catch up with you. And we’re looking forward to seeing QFPay and grow and take over the world, man. I’m excited, and I wish you the best of luck.

Patrick:  Thank you, Jay.

Jay:  Alright. Take care.