Today’s guest is Bay McLaughlin, cofounder of Brinc, which is a global Internet of Things (IoT) accelerator based in Hong Kong with offices in Shenzhen, Guangzhou, and London. Bay is originally from the States in Virginia Beach, but he sort of muscled his way into Silicon Valley, and he worked for Apple for a long time. But then he realized that there was a massive market opportunity and potential in China, particularly in the hardware space. So he decided that the opportunity was too great to miss out. So he quit his job at Apple, one of the best jobs in the world at the time, and he moved halfway around the world to Hong Kong to start this accelerator called Brinc.

Bay is very passionate about supporting the startup ecosystem here in Hong Kong, and he speaks regularly at all the large tech conferences around the world, such as South by Southwest (SXSW), Web Summit, Echelon, and, of course, RISE. So let’s get on to the show.

Jay: Alright, Bay, welcome to the show. Two times in two weeks. I’m so lucky. I’m the lucky guy. Thanks for coming on again. We were doing the Summit earlier. This one is for the podcast, but I’m happy to have you on. Maybe you could give our audience a little introduction. Who is Bay McLaughlin? What do you do for a living?

Bay: Thanks so much for having me. Absolutely happy to talk whatever you want to, whatever we can help connect with people, share what we’ve learned. I’m happy to do so.

Myself, Bay McLaughlin, a lot of people called me BetaBay. A couple of bits of background there… It sounds [inaudible 0:02:12]. It’s mainly because I really do think that you should be experimenting and trying things at all times, recognizing that you are where you are. You are who you are. There’s nothing you can really change about where you are today. You just have to recognize that, and that we’re all in some general state of imperfection, and that that’s completely normal.

From my company’s side, I’ve been in tech for about 12 years. I started out in Silicon Valley. I was very fortunate — kind of blue-collar upbringing on the East Coast. My parents were in the military and teachers — no real tech background, no hand-up, no access. But I drove across the country after I graduated and got myself into tech in Silicon Valley, loved it, and have found my absolute passion in the tech field for a very long time — both building companies, supporting founders, building companies now through Brinc, both building my business that actually supports founders of startups. So it’s kind of a perfect world for me.

Jay: Nice.

Bay: Oh, I forgot the Asia part.

Jay: We’ll get into that. That’s for sure. I don’t think I’ve ever asked you this before. Where are you from originally, from the States?

Bay: Virginia Beach, so right on the East Coast. No one really knows, but Virginia Beach, a couple of blocks from my house, is called First Landing. It’s where America was found by the British. So, from the roots.

Jay: Nice. I went to college at Carolina, at UNC Chapel Hill.

Bay: Oh, UNC. My brothers would love you. I love Duke, but they love UNC. Constant battle.

Jay: Yeah. I know Virginia Beach well because I did a couple of the summer/spring-break runs up there.

Bay: Got to.

Jay: When you went out to Silicon Valley, what was that experience like? Did you have a job ahead of time, or you just went out there and networked and found a job at Apple or whatever?

Bay: Yeah, the second one. No one in my family was in tech. The break that I got, though — which I have to say, there’s certain breaks that you look back on and opportunities that you have, and you realize I either manufactured this — like, I had a lot to do with this one — or I really had very little to do with this; I just got very fortunate. I was in college in Virginia at William and Mary. I studied abroad in Australia for little bit, and I heard about this program where Apple would actually hire kids that were in college.

They called it the Apple Campus Rep Program. It’s kind of like what Red Bull and all these other groups do. You’re on campus. You’re promoting. You are giving all this swag. You help do promotion, evangelism, and sales. I knew that was something that I’d be passionate about, but they didn’t have a role in my region. So I had to fight tooth and nail and find a way into the company and told them, either give me a business card or not, I’m going to do the job regardless.

I was fortunate enough to get enrolled with them in college. The problem that I had was they weren’t very good at transitioning their college farm team, if you will where they were breeding and incubating all of us to the actual mothership in Cupertino. They had a really bad transition rate. Unfortunately, I couldn’t find my way in. And I had that mentality of, well, if they’re not going to let me in, I’m going to show up.

So I drove cross-country, did not get the job that I wanted to interview with at Apple. I was interviewing at Google, Facebook, and other places, also small startups. I didn’t know anyone. I was sleeping on the couch of a friend of a friend, and I finally found my way into a small startup that you’ve never heard of. I got into pretty good debt by this point on credit cards and such because I just kind of knew in my head that I had to be there. I just had this feeling that I was going to be in tech the rest of my life, and I just had to go to the Mecca.

It was okay. I dug myself out. The company folded in year, so that’s a great experience to have — a big loss on your record from a startup, a company that’s not your dollar. That’s actually a really good experience to go through early. Certainly, one of the things I look back on in terms of the best things I can recommend to people is you need both corporate and startup experience, in my opinion. But I think it’s really good to start in a small business right out of school because you’re forced to wear so many hats. You’re forced, and you’re given so much responsibility at a young age. That, at least, makes you know what the other side of the equation is. Because, obviously, in corporate, you have to specialize quite early. As younger people in corporates, you generally don’t get much responsibility, and I think you don’t really understand what you’re capable of.

I went to startups, and then I went back to Apple, a big company, and then back to startups. I think I would highly recommend that kind of transition process. Start in a small company to cut your teeth, and then go to a corporate to learn some of the bigger skills later.

Jay: That’s a good piece of advice. I like how you say that. Most people would think that a company folding is not a very positive experience. But the fact that you’re able to see the bigger picture, you’re absolutely right. Failure is necessary for any sort of success, and you learn a lot of these mistakes early on. Like you said, it was, luckily, on someone else’s dime. That’s a funny topic within the startup world because some people don’t take investor capital as seriously as they should, but having said all that, personally for you and your development, I think that was fortunate.

So walk us through the next section of your life, if that includes part of Apple and your transition over to Asia.

Bay: Sure. Anyone can, obviously, check the other podcast or the other event, but ultimately, pretty quickly, I went to another startup. Three of us, we sold it. And then I went back to Apple in 2008. I had my own startup that I was trying to startup, and then I realize I was 25, didn’t know shit about anything. So I wasted a lot of my money. And 2008, everyone that remembers how back that time was. It wasn’t actually bad in Silicon Valley. I always remember giving my mom a little bit of crap. “What are you talking about with this whole recession? We’re hiring. What are you talking about?” It wasn’t really felt on the West Coast.

Anyhow, I went back to Apple. I learned a ton. I had a really amazing opportunity. This was that opportunity that you realize you didn’t really manufacture it. I just got very fortunate to be in the right place at the right time. I obviously worked my ass off, did my best, and was given an opportunity of a lifetime at Apple. We got to build their small to medium business division which, fortunately enough, not only helped me learn how to lead at a company like Apple — which is a great place to lead, an amazing culture to learn leadership — but also the ability to build a division and at the same time, have all the VCs and tech companies as your customers. So a lot of them became friends and mentors, and I’m, obviously, still very close to a lot of them today. So I’m very, very fortunate.

I quit, and started consulting with VCs and startups, and got back together with my college sweetheart after about eight years of being broken up. She had this itch to go to Asia. At this point, I was consulting in tech startups, and tech startups are everywhere and VCs. So why not try Asia? And voila. I got myself a one-way ticket with my wife three-and-a-half years ago and started building Brinc, where we support hardware founders of every shape, size, and color around the world.

Jay: So I feel like when you joined Apple, you said 2008, was it?

Bay: Yep.

Jay: That’s peak. I feel like the first iPhone came out in ’06 or ’07 because I remember in Hong Kong — I was in Hong Kong. I was working at an investment bank, like a trading desk, and I remember… I think it was the second version. You could hack it so you could use it in Hong Kong. And people would bring back these…”Oh, look. It’s an iPhone.” I remember one guy on my desk had it. It was like, “It’s so cool.” But it was outrageously priced. But I feel like that was peak, the beginning of the rise of the phoenix of Apple. So why did you ultimately end up leaving Apple?

Bay: This is where a lot of my family and friends were scratching their heads. You’re completely right. My stock was crushing it. Everything was going well with me. When I left Apple, I was 28, something like that. I had the number one reporting team globally in my division. I was living in Silicon Valley. It’s my favorite place in the world. I love my team. I love my customers. I was making the most money I’ve ever made. Apple was on the rise. It was really, really hard on paper to understand.

I’m actually about to publish a new blog post about this. It was really weird. I don’t know how to completely describe it, but I think that everyone knows a point in their life, even if things look perfect… I always use the example of when you’ve heard of rich people that are super sad. On paper, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re actually going to be happy when you get whatever that is for you — dollars, titles, whatever. And for me, I just realized the future is looking like the most boring thing for me. I’m just going to sit in this office. I’m going to climb this corporate ladder. I’m going to make a bunch of money, and it’ll be cool, but I already see it. It’s very clear what this life looks like for me. I don’t know. At 28, I used this line which I used to give shit to my boss because I wanted him to quit with me too. I thought he was a really great leader, so I wanted him to take off and do something with me. But I said, “Look, I’m too young to relegate my personal and professional development to climbing a corporate ladder.” It’s just something that stuck. I don’t know how that came out of my mouth, but it just made so much sense to me. It’s like, I just can’t give up the responsibility of me developing my potential to this corporation. It just didn’t make sense to me.

Jay: So Apple, at that point, I imagine it was very… It’s not like, “I’m working at a startup.” It’s like a full-blown, corporate, huge company.

Bay: One of the biggest. Probably the most [inaudible 0:12:32] in the world.

Jay: I totally get that because you might be in Silicon Valley. You might be in tech, but that’s not a startup. So it’s a completely different life. I think I totally get that.

Bay: But you need to do this. This is something that I think a lot of my startup friends — getting on that point a little bit — you know me enough now, get me on a bandwagon, and I’ll keep running with it. But it’s very clear to me that people talk shit about corporations with no justification, no leg to stand on. I look at what I learned at Apple, and I could not have learned the skills I learned at Apple about leadership, organizational agility, the ability to execute at a level of perfection and operational excellence that I’ve never seen at any company, never experienced it once in my life anywhere else. And to learn that and then bring that back to the startup world where you’re building companies, and you can’t do everything perfect and everything else, but then understand what it looks like; understand what having a team that operates at that level every single day feels like; to understand what it means to really develop your team — personally and professionally develop a highly operational team. That’s a skill that I think a lot of people don’t understand that you can get by working at a good corporate with a good team and good leaders. Skills that you can’t really learn in startups.

Jay: That’s right. I totally agree. For young kids out there, young’uns that are listening in, I think that there’s a lot, a lot, a lot that you can learn, like Bay said earlier, from working in a large organization. You’ll never get those types of soft skills working just as a startup and then another startup and another startup. Yeah, people slag working for a large firm all the time, but at the end of the day, it’s what you make of it. You can sit there and moan and bitch and just not be happy at your employer. You can try to extract as much of the skills as possible and just better yourself for the next step.

Bay: Yeah. I say this to my team all the time in Brinc. We’ve been at this three-and-a-half years. We’re at 34, 35 people. I am dying to get to the point in our business where I have the time that I used to have and the systems in place that I could spend the time I used to spend with my people. I was so fortunate, and I don’t think I really understood it then. I kind of thought that was normal. But obviously, a lot of things at Apple are not really normal in the real world. But I really look at my team every day, and I’m very apologetic, and I think they know me well enough. It’s not that I don’t want to spend time. I would love to spend more time with you and really teach you this stuff and work with you and develop you, and I will one day figure this out. But it’s my constant challenge that I want to figure out, because I know I’m personally gifted at that. I learned from a company that’s top-notch in it. But when you’re a startup that builds startups, it’s like a factor of two. It’s even more challenging to find the time. I think you just have to, like you said, hang on and take the blessings that you have in those companies. Take it for what it’s good for. Learn what you can. And then dismiss the stuff that’s bad, and then move on to the next thing and find out the new thing that you want to learn.

Jay: Yeah. You have that mentoring, giving personality as well. I see you all the time out there adding value, giving value, giving information away, answering questions for free. It must be even more difficult for someone like yourself.

When you came over to Hong Kong now, what was the drive behind getting into hardware specifically? How did this idea of co-founding a hardware accelerator come about?

Bay: It wasn’t some brilliant plan. I think that’s also one of those misconceptions is all these ideas. You’ve heard this a million times, but for any of the young’uns out there, there’s no master plan in people’s minds. It’s a day-after-day chipping away. One of my best mentors… You’ve heard the quote before — the overnight success that took ten years or whatever. I think that, for me, the best analogy one of my mentors ever gave me was you look at the other side of the river, and you’re like, “I’m going to get out right at that tree. I’m going to swim across and get out at that tree.” And then you jump in the river, and you get pulled around, and eventually, you get to the other side of the river, and you’re not even close to the tree you were looking at. But you made it. And you’re like, cool. That’s kind of how this whole plan thing and building companies or your vision works. It’s similar with your life. It’s not just building companies.

But I just knew that hardware, or connecting the physical world, was a massive, massive, massive opportunity. And me in my 20s, I had seen a lot of my friends or people that were a little bit older than me, smash the mobile revolution. Some of the biggest people ever, like Garrett the founder of Uber, friend. The founders of StumbleUpon — Garrett, obviously; Jason Johnson, August. All these people that are really, really profound entrepreneurs… F*** man. I missed that. I didn’t see that. I was too young. I don’t know.

I saw this hardware thing coming up, and I was like, man, actually, I think the epicenter of power, when it comes to this whole IoT thing, is going to be in China. And having been at Apple, I at least had a massive appreciation from the products that they developed in my life and how much emotional connection you have with these devices… You really love your… Or, at least, I love my Apple devices. And I realized this is going to be huge, and if I can understand what’s going on in China, and I know what I know having been in the Valley for almost 10 years, this combination will be powerful.

And I actually started out trying to raise a fund and thank goodness I didn’t follow up with that. I don’t think I would make a very good banker. But I ended up realizing that it was really more about just supporting the complexity that these founders go through on a daily basis. And if we can just do more either investments or we could do more acceleration and programs and hand-holding in our studio or we build the products in China, or our online community Enter China where we educate them remotely, even if we never met them. How do we keep just supporting and supporting and supporting this next generation of entrepreneurship, which will be connecting the physical world to the internet, unlocking the world’s data so we can then improve our lives. And if I could be a small part of that, I think it’s going to be really, really big. And I actually think it’s going to make cell phones look incredibly small in comparison. I think it’s actually that big.

So it wasn’t some master plan, but three-and-a-half years later, here we are.

Jay: So talk us through it. What do you guys do at Brinc exactly? Accelerator…there’s a seed component where you guys fund them as well. And then what else have you got going on?

Bay: We look at it more as a life cycle because we started out as an accelerator, but to go one step before that, a lot of people have questions of what it means to build IoT or hardware. People see a wearable, or they see a cool, smart-connected home device, or they see something on Kickstarter. Whatever it is. They buy the Philips Hue lights or an Apple watch, and they go, “Huh.” And then all of sudden, you start realizing you can pretty much connect everything. Now, why would you connect? That’s a different question.

But we realize there’s a lot of things that we can help people learn remotely. So we actually acquired a company called Enter China recently — EnterChina.co — where it’s an online membership and a community where there are already 300 hardware founders that are learning together every day of how to validate their ideas, how to recognize what’s a good idea, how to launch a campaign online, pre-orders, or crowdfunding, how to actually manufacture, all the things that you need to know to get started.

And if some teams want to join our accelerator, they will. And other teams around the world, they’re thinking about more of the investments. They want to build an exitable business. So they’ll join our accelerators. We have our global, online, remote IoT accelerator. You can stay where you are. Validate. Don’t spend money traveling. Don’t quit your life, because our cohorts are open right now. Live your life; build your company; stay where you are.

And then our drone accelerator is one of our verticals we’re really excited about, what building of the Z-axis is going to do for the world — the ability to go underwater and into the air and really do things that humans have never been able to do that could really help improve the world.

And then we have a new accelerator we just launched a couple of weeks ago, which is for later-stage companies, which is when they want to actually enter the Chinese market. So if you have great products, we have a new program called the Guanxi Program that will actually help you get set up, localized, and distribute your products into mainland China. So that’s on the accelerator side.

Then when you’re ready to make the product, we have our studio, and that’s where we make sure that you can make the products the right way the first time using all the amazing-ness that is China to your advantage because we’ve actually been in China manufacturing for a combined 101 years right now and quickly growing. I was just counting yesterday. I don’t know why. Someone was asking me, and I happened to look in our systems.

We’ve actually now helped ship 32 different start-up products from scratch. That’s crazy! These ideas. People just sit in these corners of the world. They have these ideas, and these beautiful things can now come to the world. If it’s connected, great. Our studio will be happy to connect you. If you’re making flip flops or plastic toys, all the way up to nanotechnology. We have some nano tech that we work on.

But we just keep asking ourselves every day — it’s very simple — What problems do people that want to build physical innovation have? And if we can solve them in any capacity, we’d like to do that. We’ve done that three-and-a-half year now, and we’ve got three accelerators. We’ve got our studio to help make the products, and we’ve got our online community, Enter China, to help you join a community of great founders that are learning together every day.

Jay: So it’s like an all-encompassing… You called it a life cycle sort of thing, start to finish, so to speak. For the audience listening in, Bay was on our How to Invest in Asia Summit recently. Go check out that interview which is a video one. But we spent a little bit of time talking about your China trips. Maybe you could just recap that for our podcast audience here.

Bay: Sure. That was actually one of those things. I travel quite a lot, so please, if you want to check me out, just @BetaBay on Twitter. Or you can check out BetaBay.me and my slash events. You’ll see I put all my events up, so I’m happy to meet you in person if we come across each other.

But I just kept realizing that people… A lot of people are discounting just how important China is, and I know that because I did it. I was Silicon Valley, epicenter of the world. And just the general American mentality is you kind of discount China. You don’t know much about it. You generally think it’s kind of this negative thing, which is crazy. It was this weird moment of realization. Like, how in the hell do I keep going city to city to city across Europe, the Middle East, Asia, America, and I can’t find people when I ask them, “Who here has been to China?” And I ask for a raise of hands. And I can’t find people when I’m going to hardware and IoT meetups and all these conferences. This is crazy.

So I finally just made a call one day going, f*** it. What if… If you show up, I’ll pay for the rest. What about that? I was like, there’s got to be some level of get off your ass that I can incentivize people to get on a damn plane and just see what the hell is going on out here. So what we did the first time is this whole litmus test of you show up at our front door at Brinc, we’ll cover the rest, but you’ve got to pay for a ticket, and get on a damn plane.

Sure enough, that filled up pretty quickly, so that was a good sign. Now I’m running ten of those. Not the deal anymore, just so you know. Now you’ve got to pay. It was more of a litmus test of, Am I taking crazy pills right now? What is going on? So now we’ve done 10 of those, and we do these week-long tours of South China, the manufacturing facilities, the culture of doing business in China, any of the trade shows that are happening. We do a lot of good hands-on mentoring during that to make sure people get the most out of it. And it’s a completely tailored and hands-on package that people get to try to understand China for their first time.

We just want people to realize that there’s a lot going on out here with the Greater Bay initiatives, the Belt Road, or the One Belt/One Road Initiative connecting all of Africa, Europe, and the Middle East to Asia. A lot is going down here, and you need to be paying attention.

Jay: Yeah. There’s so much. I tell this to investors all the time that are always curious about “What’s going on on the ground there? What’s the scene like over in China?”

Like you said, “Get on a damn plane, and come over and see for yourself.” You cannot make an educated investment into anything unless you come over and see the magnitude of basically the trend that is happening right now, which is pretty incredible.

Speaking of trends, as an on-the-ground hardware guy with your ear to the ground, what sort of trends excite you right now in hardware at the moment?

Bay: I think it’s probably pretty evident through our investments that you can kind of tell. I think three areas are really personally getting me excited. The first is around health technologies. I’m super into health tech. I think we’ve got over half of our investments there. We just made a few more. We kicked off our next round of our accelerator this morning. I really, really think that you have to take care of yourself. You have to invest and understand the data that your body is telling you that our family’s generation, our parent’s generations, our grandparent’s generation never had the ability to because the doctors and whole ecosystem were not really set up for it.

We’re the first generation that can take a clinical-grade blood pressure reading every morning in your house or blood analysis or whatever you want to do, depending on what ails you. So for me, health tech is a massive, massive trend, and we’re going to see more and more medical-grade, clinical-grade testing in your home that you won’t have to go to labs. You won’t have to go see the doctor. So I’m really excited about that. I actually run the Quantified Self-chapter here in Hong Kong.

Then the other two… Let’s say you live a really long time now. That’s great. Now you better hope the world’s in a good place. So the next one that we recently started investing in is agriculture technology, or ag tech, where we actually have to make sure that there’s enough food in the world. The water supply is going to be taken care of. So we’re really looking into how do we protect the world’s resources, how to create more food, how do we support the world that we want to live longer in.

And then the third one is around drones, which I have to say — I love Heriberto, head of our drone program. We hired a rocket scientist for this program, and the guy is an actual rocket scientist, not someone who is just smart. He’s a literal rocket scientist. And I always tell him, because he’s the nicest guy ever. I’m like, “I have to tell you, Heriberto, I really wanted to hate this program.” I really didn’t think the idea of a drone program made any sense, but the second we started looking at the applications, my mind exploded.

It’s almost like a mind-expanding experiment, like taking drugs or something. You see this feed of ideas, and you start realizing that you’re the actual dummy. You’re sitting there, I’m a curmudgeon. I really thought in two dimensions, X-Y axis, my whole life. And all of a sudden, you see these 800 — these are first application batch — 800 people. And we’re looking at all these ideas. Light bulbs going off is an understatement. My head exploded. I couldn’t believe how important drones are going to be to the future of humanity. It was so profoundly eye-opening for me. So I’m so glad my cofounder Manav and Heriberto led this charge because I think a lot of us — at least I – didn’t understand how profoundly important drones are going to be for the future.

Jay: Yeah. You mentioned something earlier. Underwater, that’s also drone technology as well.

Bay: Just made an investment there. Yep. We just did one.

Jay: So most people don’t even acknowledge that. They think about the things flying around in the sky but also underwater is also very powerful.

Bay: And underground. We just made an investment in underwater drone technology that does lots of the maintenance and checking on the pipelines, the internet pipelines, the sewage, contamination, reefs — anything that’s underwater that you want to continually maintain and make sure things are okay or even just populations of fish, etc.

But I saw a really cool, crazy company out of Stockholm in Sweden where they make this custom UAV, Unmanned Autonomous Vehicle. You actually have wheels on it. It goes into the mines, and then when it needs to fly, it just kind of hovers over the rocks, and then lands back on its wheels, and it keeps going. But the problem is — that sounds cool; also cool — but how do you know where you’re going because GPS doesn’t work underground? So they had to create an entirely new operating, a whole new version of GPS to work where GPS can’t actually get signal. They’re actually using it.

This is where you start going, damn. There’s some smart people in the world. You have to just give yourself that ability to dream a little bit and think a little bit as a kid again, a little bit more creatively.

Jay: I love that. For aspiring startup founders or entrepreneurs that want to apply for a spot in your next class at Brinc, how does that work? What’s the timeline and the protocol to get an application in, and what’s the support that you get if you get accepted into the class?

Bay: So we have moved from rolling to a little bit more of a cohort basis. But I’ll always, always say that we will take a team if it’s a great team and a great idea, and we’ll never make you wait on our schedule. We’ll always go out of our way to get you into our company and our programs and take care of you. So if you’re interested, always feel free to go to just brinc.io/apply or always hit me up @BetaBay on Twitter or [inaudible 0:30:49] just off of Twitter or Instagram or my LinkedIn account. So feel free to hit me up.

But in terms of what you get, we have a four-month tailored accelerator program for our IoT accelerator where we actually create a custom curriculum for you, because we’ve been mapping the process for the last three and a half years, so we’ve learned a lot of mistakes. So we don’t put you in this one-size-fits all batch where you go have a mentor come in and talk about the same thing to the same group of people the whole time. We don’t pitch you demo days. You don’t do all the stuff that a normal accelerator does. It’s tailored to the problems that you have. And you can get four months of our time. We’ll go all out to help you get as far as you can in four months, at which point we’ll push you into the kind of more passive programs that are still ongoing. But we do founder hours every single month, and we also do 360 audits of your business every single quarter with the most senior people in our company to ensure that, as long as you’re our family and we’re equity holders in your business, we’ll try and take care of you as long as we can.

It’s kind of our hybrid version of everything that we’ve learned from all of the accelerators that we worked up before, programs we’ve partnered with, VCs that we’re friends with. We looked at all the systems, and this is our best version, which we’re so happy with, our founders are so happy with. So we’d love to see in the applications any of the good ideas out there.

Jay: That’s awesome, man. Bay, dude, thanks for your time. It’s been good catching up and hearing about all of the crazy, crazy, awesome stuff that you guys are working on over there. What’s the best place people can find you, follow you, connect with you, learn a little bit more about Brinc and catch some of your Facebook Live or Periscope videos?

Bay: Twitter is probably the most active. Just @BetaBay. Also, obviously Facebook.com/BetaBay as well. I try my very best. I’d literally [inaudible 0:32:32]. I actually can’t wait until the point where I have… I mean, I do have a lot of questions in my feed, but not too many where I can’t actually answer. And ask me a question, and I will answer. I’ve had some very weird ones, so I always appreciate people challenging me. But please reach out. If there’s anything I know, have learned, I’m happy to give it back. It’s the least I can do, so I appreciate you having me on, and hopefully, everyone out there knows I’m available. I would love to help out if I can.

Jay: Awesome, man. Great having you on and appreciate your time.

Bay: Thanks so much, Jay.

Jay: Alright. Take care. Bye.